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1500m Free?

Posted by Tyler on Jun 08, 2005 12:52PM (2,325 views)
I am helping a masters swimmer train for the 1500m. I helped her previously for sprinting (2 years back now). Anyway I saw her in the pool and she trains by just swimming the 1500m.

I was wondering if there were some other ways to train. Previously I have my swimmers do a 4 x 400 Free on pace.

But I remember Dave posting awhile back talking about Hackett training a different way for his (this was during a discussion by Dave against doing pointless yardage). Any info on this?

Lastly - a triathlon coach recently changed her freestyle to a straight arm pull. No scull at the start - just arm enters, elbow stays locked and goes straight through.

Everything I know says that is horribly wrong - especially for a 55+ swimmer. Seems too hard on the joints to be effective and not enough leverage.

But I also remember a friend of mine (a top level sprinter) saying he used this way and that it was faster for him as a 6'6" guy so maybe I'm way off base for this masters swimmer.

Any help would be really appreciated.


Responses

Responded Jun 08, 2005 01:42PM

I know Larsen Jensen broke his 1500 up into 15 100's. He and his coach came up with his splits that he wanted to swim for each 100, and when it came time for his race at Athens he was never more than .3 off the splits he had practiced for each 100.

I think a straight arm pull would be easier on her shoulder then the high elbow. The high elbow position requires shoulder rotation that is not natural for most people. Sure, the high elbow may be more effective, but if she is sidelined with a shoulder injury it won't really matter.

An off topic question here...how did you become a coach for these people? Did they just happen to come across you? Did you coach them at a club? Just curious.

Responded Jun 08, 2005 03:58PM

I coach for a club. I first helped this swimmer when I was a lifeguard. Some guards were helping her in the mornings with her swimming to I came in every day for the summer in the morning to help her. She wanted to make the Alberta Senior Games.

She did and now is hooked on swimming :)

Responded Jun 08, 2005 04:03PM

First, on pacing... I'm like the 100's rather than the 400's to build an awareness. If you want to really clue them in on a pace, make sure it's timed feet to feet, not push to hand.

As far as a straight arm PULL, do you mean... straight arm RECOVERY? If it really is about a straight arm PULL, I'm right there with you Tyler... just seems silly and a very weak move in comparison to a good bent arm stroke.

Responded Jun 08, 2005 04:07PM

PS Tyler.

I'm heading to Montreal this weekend for the Canadian Grand Prix! Looking forward to it!

Responded Jun 08, 2005 05:45PM

It is straight arm pull. I was in the pool with my goggles to see the underwater movement (since I don't own an underwater camera lol). Swimming changes so fast sometimes I just was hoping I wasn't behind on a new technique.

The Grand Prix will be amazing. Have fun!

Responded Jun 08, 2005 06:30PM

Interesting to read this now, I am training for a 1500m at the end of July, and was wondering if I should train in sets (which I do now) or straight 1500 swim (which I do not do). I know I'll have to dry run the 1500m eventually within the next month, but I'll stick to the 15x100 and 10x200 for now.

Thanks!

Responded Jun 09, 2005 04:15AM

Tyler, could you please clarify the "straight arm pull" once more - is the difference in the timing (ie she is immediately starting to pull when entering the water) or in the movement (ie she is not bending her arm while pulling)?

Responded Jun 09, 2005 10:56AM

The movement. Arm goes in nice and long then pulls (elbow locked) straight down until she passes her hip. Then recovers nicely with a high elbow.

Responded Jun 09, 2005 11:22AM

I'm sure your right - but is it really a *straight* arm pull? I know I used to have what I thought was a *straight* arm pull but in actual fact my arm always naturally bent - it's just that I never proactively bent it. I used to find this a pretty efficient way to swim - though you have to be careful where you apply the arm pressure during the stroke.

Having said that I've been adjusting the last few months to a more proactive bent arm stroke.

Responded Jun 09, 2005 11:25AM

Hey swimmom,

Not that it's worth anything but when I do swim "competatively" it's always long distance (1.5 - 5K) and I almost always prepare for this doing mainly 100s. I would say that you need occasional distance (i.e. 1500) swims because there is nothing quite like those. That said 15-20x100 repeats on specific intervals, times and strokes should work wonders for you.

Responded Jun 09, 2005 12:26PM

Tyler,

As one having been down this route, I'd respond as follows.

There is no escaping that fact that you need to practice the distance in it's entirety at some stage (and then do this on a regular basis to build up endurance). Also, swimming beyond that distance in training (2-3km), does seem to assist me both mentally and physically when tackling a 1500m. I suppose you can work up to that by doing repeats (100s, 200s, pyramids etc) or just by trying to go longer each time. I find it helpful also to do "fartlech" (speedplay) work over the longer distances (i.e. do 200m steady, 100 fast, 200m steady etc)

But, completing the distance is just one part. Training to do it faster is the other. Last year in the London Triathlon, I'd done lots of repeats up to and over the distance in training which gave me the endurance to get through the race quite comfortably (I was about 18th out of the water out of a field of about 250), but I felt that I lacked the power to put in a bit of pace now and again.

So, this year I've mixed up the training. Generally, I have one two-hour club session a week which totals around 5km in distance. This is usually comprised of 200m sets of drills, kicks and pulls, with a main set of 1500m (sub-22min), 1000m (sub-15min) and 500m (sub- 8 min), and finishing maybe with 6 x 50s/or 25s then 200m warm down. I find this to be an absolute killer but the payoffs in terms of stamina is great.

The rest of the week (maybe 3 - 4 swims) I do shorter sessions & distances (about 2500m) over the course of one hour. Usually, I do a 200-300 warm-up (which I now devote to drills) and main sets of:
- 12 x 100m (leaving on 1.45, sometimes descending);
- 16 x 50m on 1.00min; 16 x 50m kick off 1.15 [this is fun for a predominately distance swimmer as you have to turn your arms and kick over at a much higher rate - can feel odd at first]
- repeats of 200, 300, 400 to total around 2km

To put this in perspective, when I first tried a timed 1000m a couple of years ago, I came in on around 18mins. Since, I've managed a 14.30 but aim to break that this year.

Also, although it's a real wrench, I've given up some swim time each time I train to drills and that's had a great effect too (I went right back to basics - balance, rotation, timing etc).

In summary, mixing up long straight swims with aerobic threshold & lactate tolerance work seems to have helped my distance times. But, there again, drilling has also helped a lot too.

Responded Jun 09, 2005 01:03PM

Hello friends.

I would like to write an specific set that I think can help for 1500.

4x100 at desire pace of 100 with 10 seg rest.
400 trying to keep pace and get into the zone (mental work) 20seg rest.
4x100 at desire pace of 100 with 15 seg rest.
4x50 at desire pace of 100 minus 2 seg with 10 seg rest.
4x25 at desire pace of 100 minus 4 seg with 10 seg rest.

I think this could be one of the million way to train for 1500.
I wanted to place in this workout rithm with 4x100 two times, mental work in a stright 400 and descendent work in 50īs and 25īs in the end.

What do you think about it?


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