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Pic of the Week - November 11, 2005

Posted by Glenn Mills on Nov 11, 2005 12:50PM (5,336 views)

This week's picture features Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen, holder of 49!!! Masters World Records. Swimmers of all ages can learn a lot from Karlyn. Here's a glimpse of things to come....

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Responses

Bob Hopkins	Responded Nov 11, 2005 03:33PM Good technique at this point in her stroke: on her right side, beginning to rotate hand & forearm downward to get an "armfull" of water; head in line with rest of body looking at bottom of pool; right foot/leg poised to do a strong down kick with top of right foot as she begins her right arm stroke to generate maximum power throughout her stroke while snapping/rolling to her left side; that's the way good swimmers swim; way to go Karlyn!! Bob Hopkins Sparta, NJ
fiZZLe	Responded Nov 13, 2005 01:59AM Also that nice roll and reach has her body as sharp as a knife to cut through the water :). It's also nice to see shes exhaling at a steady pace keeping her body ready to go!
Tomás	Responded Nov 13, 2005 03:31PM Bob I have a question: Is she going to use the power of her right kick for her right arm pull or is she going to use the core-body roll to the left to generate that power? In other words...is she swimming with her core-body or is she "arms and legs oriented? Tom�s
Bob Hopkins	Responded Nov 13, 2005 11:56PM Tomas, Great questions. The answer to both your questions is yes. The down kick with the right foot at the beginning of the right arm pull augments the body roll/snap to the left side which is how power is generated. As the right hand/arm executes its pull/push, it gets power from the body rotation augmented by the kick as well as from the pulling and pushing action of the right arm/hand unit. It is simiar to the way power is generated in hitting a the ball in baseball, golf and tennis. In those three actions, your feet are "anchored" to the ground. In swimming, you need to "anchor" your feet in the water by executing the timing of your kick in the early part of your pull/push with your arm. That allows you to maximize the power you generate with you body rotation. A good way to feel that effect is to do a drill in which you kick only twice during one arm cycle. Kick down with the top of your right foot in the early part of your right arm pull/push to assist your body roll to the left side and then kick down with the top of your left foot in the early part of your left arm pull. After each down kick and body roll and arm pull/push, you will feel a surge of power during which you should glide on your side for an instant. Let me know if that works for you.
Judson	Responded Nov 14, 2005 08:57AM Tomas, There is actually a drill of the week that demonstrates what Bob was talking about. You can get a visual for his explanation here
Tomás	Responded Nov 14, 2005 11:24AM Hi, thanks a lot...but as allwayas I have to disagree and this was my answer to Glenn's post (spanish version). I have to disagree on Sandeno's kick. She uses a 6 beat kick an d her first kick matches the same side hand entry, then she rotates beautifully as she extends her arm and kicks with her opposite leg, she kicks again when she starts her pull with the same side leg to initiate the cycle on her other arm. Sandeno's rotation is so strong that I think she is core-body centered...but I don't know about Karlyn. Tom�s
Tomás	Responded Nov 14, 2005 02:07PM Bob/Judson Hi. Re-reading your posts, I find several problems but specially with this one...How can I assist my body to roll to the left with a kick from the right leg?...the hip is traveling DOWN to the RIGHT SIDE! as you kick?...or should that kick be a SIDE kick? If you watch Erick Vendt's kick, he rolls to the same side that he kicks...the opposite of Sandeno...and I do have to agree that she rotates much more than he does. Tom�s
Bob Hopkins	Responded Nov 14, 2005 06:25PM Tomas, If you have the GoSwim DVD that has both Erik Vendt and Kaitlin Sandeno on it and if you watch them both in freestyle in the slo mo section, you will see that Erik's downkick on his pulling side is at the point where his rotated foream and hand are near his shoulder, namely very early in the arm cycle. Kaitlin is a little later in the arm cycle, with her down kick on the stroking side coming when her pull is closer to her hip. The point is that the entire motion, hand/arm complex, body roll/snap and timing of the kick are one motion not separate. However it is critical, in my opinion, that the downkick on the stroking side be done early in the arm cycle, somewhere between the shoulder and the hip so that the extra power generated by the properly timed kick will augment the power generated by the body snap/roll and the arm pull/push. Bob Hopkins Sparta, NJ
Bob Hopkins	Responded Nov 14, 2005 06:27PM Tomas, To answer your last question, as you kick down with the top of your right foot, the force generated pushes your right hip up, not down.
Tomás	Responded Nov 14, 2005 07:31PM Hi Bob and thanks a bunch. Please have some patience because I have been struggling with this kicking issue for years. Let me begin with your answer. I agree that if I kick down my hip will be pushed up, but ONLY if it is a vertical kick like in the butterfly stroke...but in freestyle you are suppossed to kick TO THE SIDE, and that is pretty much how I kick: to the SIDE, lets say to the left side of my body using my right leg while rolling and streching to the RIGHT SIDE, and my kick starts with the downward movement of my right hip and my right shoulder...in MY mind that is what Richard Quick's freestyle video teaches and it is very much the way Shelly Ripple kicks...BUT IF I AM TOTALLY WRONG PLEASE SAY SO!!!!!!! Vendt and Sandeno Vendt: Kick 1.A vertical kick with the opposite leg of his hand entry. Extremely early in his stroke. Kick 2.A side kick with the same side leg as he rolls to that side. Kick 3.A very powerful side kick with the opposite leg as he super-extends his stroking arm. Then he starts with the other arm. Sandeno: Kick 1.A vertical kick (and kind of shallow) with the same side leg as the arm she is stroking with. Kick 2.A very strong and profound side kick with the opposite leg of her stroking arm. Here she really rolls!!! Kick 3.When she starts the pull and with the same side leg of her pulling arm...this is also a kind of shallow kick. I am starting to think that side kicking is a crucial issue here, because it is the only way your hip won't be pushed up (we don't want up and down movements).Shane Gould in her TI video stresses the importance of side kicking. What do you think Bob??????????? Kind regards Tom�s
Bob Hopkins	Responded Nov 14, 2005 10:00PM Tomas, The problem with the differences in our descriptions is semantics. When I say "downkick" I mean the top of the foot is in its downward (versus upward) movement. If you are on your right side, which you are when you begin your catch and right arm pull, that "down kick" (in my terminology) will be to the side of the pool rather than to the bottom of the pool. So with that for starters, we are in agreement. Now for our descriptions of the way the best swimmers do it. I will guess that we are both saying the same thing from different perspectives. I will rewatch the videos with your description in front of me and see if I can see things from your perspective. I will get back to you on this message board after I do that. The important point is that we both have concluded that the proper timing of the kick is a crucial issue in generating power in freestyle swimming. The way the best people do it is, obviously, the way it should be done. Putting words in place to describe those actions is the challenge, that is why videos are so good. It is what it is.
Tomás	Responded Nov 14, 2005 11:50PM Bob...thank you very much. I agree, the "downkick" will be to the side of the pool and for the first time in years I am clear of what "efficient kick" means...it means proper timing and YES! it is a crucial issue in generating power in freestyle swimming. Hopefully you will also see Vendt and Sandeno from my perspective...and in case they are out there reading our discussion...thank you both very much. Tom�s
swym karlyn	Responded Nov 15, 2005 03:42AM Aloha! Karlyn here writing to you from warm and sunny Kona, Hawaii (where this shot was taken by Glenn last week...thanks!). Anyway, this is my first post (of I am sure many), so here it goes. To be totally honest...I do not think about my kick that much when I swim. I am very good kicker, but for years I have had a cross-over kick. I believe this is mostly due to breathing only on my right side and one hip slightly lower (read: leg shorter) than the other. As you can imagine, my poor ankles get beat up when I sprint! However, now that my stroke is more balanced/stable with the wider entry and I am ATTEMPTING to breath on both sides, my kick crosses over less, but I sometimes miss a beat! As for the question about being core-body or am I "arms and legs" oriented. I would say that I use my arms/lats/chest the most, followed closely by core and then my legs. Not sure why, this is just what I feel. Bob and Judson...hello! Bob...we are heading back to the East Coast and NJ in April again this year. We should talk. Mahalo (thanks), Karlyn
Bob Hopkins	Responded Nov 15, 2005 11:58AM Tomas, I went to the laboratory (swimming pool) this morning to experiment on the kick timing and I must add something to what I have previously said. When you are on your side with arm extended you must start rotating toward the horizontal position so that you can execute your catch (rotate hand and arm to get an armful of water while keeping elbow high). It is at this point when your have a hold on the water with your forearm/hand (elbow to finger tips) that you are horizontal (flat) in the water and it is at this point that you execute the "down kick" on the same side as your pulling arm that augments the power of the body roll. In fact, since you are horizontal, the "down kick" is actually toward the bottom of the pool. This is consistent with Karlyn's teaching of wide entry and pull that we discussed at the Masters clinic in Princeton on April 9th of this year.
Tomás	Responded Nov 15, 2005 02:17PM Bob, I wish you a very happy day. I fairly agree with your above description and timing of the kick...and that is very much the way Kaitlin Sandeno kicks and pulls...except for the fact that even being flat in the water, her kick (this would be her third one) is to the side of the pool and "opposite" she kicks to the right side of the pool if she is going to roll to the left...WHICH AUGMENTS HER BODY ROLL (actually this kick throughs her to the other side)... it is not a VERTICAL kick. Take a very close look to her kick. Erik Vendt kicks very differently and Glenn made a great work in fitting the 6 beats he uses...(see the freestyle section). I think he has more time to fit in his kicks do to the super-extension (hence time) of his arm and he swims an exaggerated Front Quadrant Swimming to the point that he starts his pull almost when his other stroking arm is about to enter the water...he swims very much like Grant Hackett and no wonder why they call them "rubber shoulders". So another important point: the effect of arm extension....which will take us to the discussion of "long strokes" vs. "short strokes" Tom�s
Tomás	Responded Nov 15, 2005 02:50PM Mahalo Karlyn...for joining our discussion, and I wish you a great time in Hawaii. I am a novice swimmer and I am not supposed to question a swimmer that holds 49 World Records...BUT I have a brand new swimming theory for you...IT IS THAT FUNNY PINKY TOE THAT YOU HAVE WHAT GIVES YOU ALL THE PROPULSION!!! Other observations: 1. Are you sure that you are a good kicker???...you say you don't even think about it and you consider your legs kind of a last resort. 2. You actually kick like Kaitlin Sandeno. In the picture, you are about to kick with the right leg as you start your right arm pull...that was my whole argument with Bob. The important point is not which leg you are using as long as you kick to the opposite SIDE of your body roll. 3. Karlyn, if you mainly do it with your arms, can you tell me if weight lifting is really important for FAST swimming?? 4. I have to disagree with your "wide entry", it will make it hard for you to anchor your hands in the water and you will shorten your distance per stroke. Kind regards Tom�s
Glenn Mills	Responded Nov 15, 2005 03:04PM I'll let Karlyn answer for herself, but unless you've seen the entire presentation of the wide entry freestyle, it may be a bit premature to disregard what it is. Maybe you already know all of what it entails and don't like it... but if not, I'd wait just a bit to be so positive about what a wide entry is going to do. :)
Tomás	Responded Nov 15, 2005 03:52PM What happened Glenn? I am not disregarding nobody and nothing and I don't know what "wide entry" entails...I was only quoating Misty Hyman from the Go Swim Butterfly DVD...and I only think that the wide entry problems one can see in the butterfly stroke are much the same for the freestyle stroke. I will wait and see. Tomas
Glenn Mills	Responded Nov 15, 2005 04:05PM :) I was simply stating, that this medium gets a bit tough when sometimes statements are made that seem so definitive, "it will make it hard for you to anchor your hands... will shorten your distance per stroke". There is always so much to each stroke, and each individual's specific technique, that really nothing is so cut and dry. The meaning and planning behind Karlyn's wide hand entry make absolute perfect sense for many people, and actually don't cause the things stated. Certainly not saying anything other than... wait 'til you see the whole thing, like you said you will, and I think you'll like what you see. I know I did. :)
sammy mills	Responded Nov 15, 2005 04:52PM Oh my goodness! It's Karlin! I hope you had as much fun getting pictures of her as we had at the beach daddy!!!!!! Hawaii was a life changing experience. I want to go back already. I woke up thismorning, but didn't open my eyes, and was thinking in my head "i think i'll go to the beach across the street for awhile this-morning." I was disappointed when I opened my eyes and realized that I had to go to school! Haha! Well, everybody keep looking out for Karlin... You might be seeing alot more of her soon!
swym karlyn	Responded Nov 15, 2005 05:05PM Aloha, Whew! So much since my last post. I will not get into the picky details that have been flying around, but I will answer some of the questions posed. 1) I don't just think I am a good kicker, I KNOW I am a good kicker; with or without a board and all strokes but breast. You would not want to race me in a kick set. I kick fast and can maintain good speed. I have flexible ankles (as shown in the photo...which I thought my foot looked kinda funny pointed down) and "floppy" feet. I can point my toes like a ballerina. Since I have a good kick and it is not a LIABILITY dragging me down or forcing my hips to go crazy, I do not need to think about it much...unless I want to go fast. I train my legs and think about it then, but I know that even the BEST swimmers in the world MAYBE get 25% of their propulsion from their kick. For a novice swimmer, I feel that too much time and energy is spent focused on the kick. Intead of over analizing, try to improve the mechanics of your kick. Using Alpha fins by ZURA is a great way to limit your liability; use your fins to help increase ankle flexiblity and to learn how to keep a small and quick "FLUTTER" kick, not a montser kick. 2) Thank you for the compliment. Any time I can be compared to Kaitlin is truly an honor. But, I bet she can kick my okole (butt) in kicking! 3) Yes, I believe in strength and core training. I also believe in pull-ups and can do up to 10 on a good day (measurable, pure upper body strength) 4) Wide-entry means just slightly wider than your shoulders on the hand entry. It is called wide-entry since many people have learned a "narrow" or "cross-over your centerline" entry. Please don't knock it until you try it! Have a great day. Karlyn
Tomás	Responded Nov 15, 2005 07:25PM Dear Karlyn I wish you a very happy day. I want to thank you very much for your answers but above all let me tell you that in any way I meant to be disrespectful to you or to anybody in this message board and if I wrote something that hurt your feelings I completely apologize for it. Best wishes Tom�s
Glenn Mills	Responded Nov 15, 2005 08:11PM I don't think it was that at all Tomas, so no worries there. Your input has been great, so don't be shy about continuing. We just want to make sure nobody jumps to conclusions on anything until they've really had an opportunity to give it a shot. It's like people automatically saying side breathing on butterfly doesn't work, when in the next breath they say they've never tried it, or taught it, just sounds silly. We're just glad everyone is keeping an open mind, and learning from all the great athletes we get a chance to work with. Thanks, and no worries.
swym karlyn	Responded Nov 24, 2005 12:28AM Aloha! Since my crazy baby toe on my left foot took center stage in some of the discussions last week you will be interested to know that I broke the silly thing last weekend. I was in Hilo at a USA meet competing in the 13 and over age catagory (of course, I represent the WAY over 13). I had just gotten out of the water after having finished swimming 53.04 100 yard freestyle, when I accidentally kicked the lifeguard stand. The toe is black and blue and swollen, and hurts quite a bit walking. Swimming is ok since I don't kick that much, but turns are a little challenging. However, I will be swimming on the mainland in late December at the Kerr McGee Elite meet in Oklahoma City (it's a super fast kids meet with the BEST hospitality). If anyone would like to check out my swims, go to KMSC.org and click on Elite meet. Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Karlyn Hi Sammi! Do you smell good?
Tomás	Responded Nov 24, 2005 11:45AM Dear Karlyn I wish you a very happy day. I can't believe your story, it seems like your pinky toe is claiming more attention. But look at it in a positive way, since it is swollen you will get even MORE PROPULSION!!! and you are going to do great at the Kerr McGee Elite Meet...and I will be checking your swims. Back to seriousness. Karlyn maybe you can help me with this one: my favorite stroke is butterfly, but my stroke rate is so slow that I am getting very frustrated with the stroke. I think that my problem is that I glide to much before I take my pull...I glide almost as if I were swimming freestyle (the stroke that I practice the most. Do one has to glide in butterfly before the set up of the catch or do you have to inmediately pull back? How can you avoid glidding? Wish you the best. Tomas.
swym karlyn	Responded Nov 28, 2005 03:30AM Tomas, My suggestion for the butterfly... less is more. Try using the following: smaller, easier kick shorter pull less pause at the top The idea is not to get stuck anywhere in the stroke. If you get stuck, you slow down and butterfly is a hard stroke to get going again if you have lost your momentum. Try any of these suggestions and see how they work. Or, try all three at the same time. You might be surprised to find that you are working way too hard by doing too much. Do "less" and see how THAT feels. Good luck! swym karlyn
Tomás	Responded Nov 28, 2005 11:33AM Mahalo Karlyn, Mahalo! I will work on your suggestions. Kind regards Tomas

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Pic of the Week - November 11, 2005

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