Sports Science Topic

1:4 is recommended, but I usually end up at around 1:5 with the sets I do for maximum velocity in the water. Although I usually add equipment for resistance. I generally have a hard time putting together the control needed to maintain maximum dps at workout though even with that much rest.

One coach I swam for would do what I consider sprint work (at least 1:3 work to rest or more) only at the very end of practice around 2-3 days a week and the distance would very seldom be over 25.

The thing I would be even more interested in is at one points in practice people do high end speed training. I find that doing speed at beginning of practice VERY different than at the end, at least from a mental standpoint which is probably the most important aspect of maximum velocity.

Haha I am sure you have discussed with Glenn about this cos that subject was first brought up by me cos I asked Glenn about this sprint - I make mistakes by using ratio 1:1 so he thinks its better for me doing 1:4 or 1:5 - how long rest takes?

Great topic and one that has promoted many a heated 'conversation'.

With my swimmers, I always allow full recovery of the swimmers mind and body after each maximum effort be it over 12.5, 16, 25 or 37.5 yds

This will eat into your training time but, these max effort repeats need the extended rest to allow the swimmer to get ready for the next swim.

It is my belief that the human body has an inbuilt safety mechanism that will only allow for a totally committed maximum swim when both mind and body have fully recovered.
W
Also this type of work should be carried out very early on in the swim session rather than at the end as is traditionally done.

How I contact Jonty?

The key in this is that the process is neural based and so requires a complete recovery. So work to rest ratios of a minimum of 1:4 are required. Going beyond 1:4 is far better than below. Also, when doing very high end neural work, doing anything over 20 meters is not recommended at all. So if you’re looking for a set that works on high end velocity with no lactate accumulation at all, then sprints of 10 to 20 meters are more than enough. The key is ensuring that the W:R ration is correct, and the technique is exactly what you’re looking for. So if I did 10x15 on :50 to 1:00… I would be well within bounds of this kind of set and would expect a strong neural adaptation to the parameters that I was trying to maintain during the set. Going up to a distance of 25 meters can cause issues and without enough rest, or doing too many repeats in a row will cause a significant change in the dynamics you might be looking for..
For example… my athletes were doing max 25’s on 1:10… since they were going around 10 to 11 seconds and getting +- 60 rest the W:R ratio was well beyond 1:5. After 4 of them, they starting showing signs of lactate production… after 6 they were in the 5+ mM/l and could get up as high as 8mM/l of lactate when doing 10 to 12 in a row. So simple sprint 25’s can produce lactate and produce an environment where the session has changed into an anaerobic, buffering based set. Which isn’t really an issue if the swimmer is holding the correct race parameters during the set, and as a coach you are aware that lactate accumulation is going to occur. So looking for that kind of effect.
What coaches need to be aware of: (200 and down athletes). Swimmers need to have a command of a range of stroke cycle rates with perfect technique. At the low end of the cycle rate, holding perfect technique is pretty easy… at the high end not as easy. The key is having a diverse range, and making sure that you can handle stroke rates that are beyond your race rate. So if I wanted to hold 60 cycle per minute or 1.00 seconds per cycle for a 100 meter race, then I would need to do these three things to support that on a neural level.
1. Be able to sustain perfect tech and distance per cycle at rates slightly slower than that rate (55 – 58cpm)
2. The same as above at that rate (60 cpm)
3. The same as above beyond that rate (63-65 cpm)

In this case (current topic) we’re talking about the 63-65 range, and to do that effectively you would need shorter bursts, with lots of rest, and no accumulation. Set duration would be rest dependant, but probably somewhere in the 50 to 150 meters in total actual sprint volume.
If you were working on the second option (60) this type of training would be driven by the ability to hold and maintain race specific parameters, and would probably be distances of 15 to 50 and result in some lactate accumulation depending on the repeat duration and number of repeats. This type of training would more likely be done in the 1:2 to 1:4 work to rest range. Set duration would be driven by the athlete’s ability to maintain race parameters.
If you were working on the first option (55-58) this type of training would be driven by the ability to hold and maintain race specific parameters,(most importantly race rate) and would probably be distances of 50 meters or less. They would definitely result in some lactate accumulation depending on the repeat duration and number of repeats. This type of training would more likely be done in the 1:1 or possibly less work to rest range. Set duration would be endurance based
Ultimately coaches would need to understand that racing is neural based, and that just training hard doesn’t guarantee that an athlete will be able to achieve their race goals. Training has to be race specific, and if done well, the actual race rates will seem comfortable on race day. There is a lot more to this than I have explained, but this is the shortened version.

To answer some additional questions;
With 14 kids per lane… go 5 seconds apart sprint 10 to 20 meters on 1:10. Takes time, but the effect is worth it if done correctly.
This set should be done early and is a great set that can open up the pathways for a main set.

GW

I figure if you're in a normal UK situation you have 2-3 lanes of the pool at ungodly hours... so walking back would work... that way the fast traffic would be one way only... less chance for an ugly collision and more chance for the kids to concentrate on bodyline and great technique etc without the worry of someone coming the other way. Risk management might want to discourage that since walking on wet decks might incur slippage and horseplay etc... so not sure how you want to deal with that... but like the walk back option since it really lets the brain focus on what you what it on... doing this from a dive also works with the one way thing.

You can also set your group up in the middle of the pool and work on explosive turns... sending one group one way, and the other the other way... so 7 towards each end... takes less time to get a fast 10 meter sprint in... 8-10 in and maybe 1-2 strokes after the breakout... depends on stroke etc.

I am confused at moment, I am not kid - I am young fella as I have discussed with Glenn about my freestyle workout as I swam 10x50 at 25m pool with 30 secs break each with 10x50 polo crawl 30 secs break each as well so its 20x50m as freestyle, break, polo crawl, break, freestyle, break, polo crawl go on.... I admit its was tiring so Glenn says I was doing 1:1 ratio which its wrong so he saying I go for 1:4 or 1:5 (dunno how long rest is)

I am trying to improve my timing on sprint freestyle - I was improving but not enough so I wanna hit 20 sec mark.

What about other strokes such as backstroke, breaststroke and butterfly? How long break last at 1:4 and 1:5? cos Glenn saying something like 1:1 is wrong so 1:4 or 1:5 is correct one.

Thank you so much for information, Jonty!

I can't wait see your comments about other strokes. Can you give me your plan about other strokes? I know its long story to go on......

Sprint training is sprint training… so whether it’s freestyle or the other three strokes, it all the same thing. What you’re trying to do is to get the body to adapt to a different level of performance. So don’t think of the strokes as being unique, think of the kind of training as eliciting a specific response as being unique.
On David Salo… when he introduced the world to his training concepts, they weren’t necessarily ahead of their time, they were concepts that in my opinion were in the right direction. Swimming had been bogged down in concepts of over training, break them down and then build them up kind of thing for decades, and he came along with a neural based system that was more race specific and in time one that has proven its success at many levels. What has enhanced this concept is the new technology we see today, and so although this paradigm won’t work for everyone, it will be successful for a large majority.
Training is ultimately an adaptation to a certain level of intensity… I’ve said it before on this website… it’s all about the metabolic cost of shape, drag, anchor pressure and cycle frequency. So coaches who continue to get their athletes to just TRAIN HARD will be successful to some degree, but not nearly as successful as those coaches who understand how to analyze an athlete’s goal performance and develop race models that allow them to train specifically for that performance.
James don’t be affronted by this, but I’ll use you as an example… You train really hard and there’s no question in my mind that you have a strong desire to swim fast. However, just training hard doesn’t always get the result you’re looking for. In your case you’d be better off figuring out what your goal time for a 50 was and then working on training at that velocity in order to get the body or in this case your brain very comfortable with being able to maintain that velocity. So in this case if your goal swimming velocity was 2.5 meters per second, then you’d be better off doing 15’s, or 20’s, or 25’s at that velocity versus doing 20x50 at a velocity of 2.1 or 2.2 meters per second. My design would have the body being very comfortable with 2.5… your design would have the body having no clue what 2.5 felt like… so in the long run probably no ability to be able to sustain that velocity.
So it’s all about adapting to a specific goal, and having the ability to develop race models that give you specific training targets to achieve that goal. I’ve cut this down to a short conversation, and there are many more things involved in all of this, but this should give the readers a better understanding of what should be important.

This conversation is amazing! This is what our sport needs. Well thought out, scientifically-backed reasons for training in specific ways. Practical sets that recognize our pool limitations and crowding. Please keep it coming!

Lots of very technical talk here involving a lot of stuff the average coach does not have access to.
Simply stated; in order to train a swimmer to swim faster in sprints, they must swim faster than they can in the race. How?
Swim a shorter distance. Sprint a 12 1/2, your time is faster than you could swim a 50 split.
Sprint a 25, your time is faster that you could do a split in a 100.
Now you get the picture.
The problem is coaches now a days are more concerned with yards per practice. Most think if your swimmers do not do 7000yds+ in 2 hours, then you are not geting a worthwhile practice.
Forget that nonsense.
To do worthwhile sprint training, you must allow the body to recover so you can do maximal effort on the next sprint and the next. After 6 sprints without sufficent rest/lactate removel, your swimmers are wasting their time and yours. If on the first sprint they go :12, they should be able to do that on #16 or # 20.
I learned this from a coach who routinely sent 10-15 swimmers to every Olympic Trials and had several swimmers make it to the Games.
Sets we use are 16x25 where 1/2 is 100% sprint and the last 1/2 is easy recovery. on :45. Lots of rest.
25 sprints with a turn and push off + 4 strokes and easy back on 4:00.
25 sprints on 4:00 with an easy 25 back.
The key is the easy swim to remove the lactate. If not, it builds and then you are wasting your time. It has to be removed each time to create Max effort on EACH SWIM!

It is not how much much you do in 2 hours of practice but WHAT you do during those 2 hours.

Great suggestion, Alan. Would love to know more about the Club and Coach you describe!