Hand "stays still"

HiFi did put it into words really well and the example was a good one. I think the air vs water example just shows what the mass per unit volume of water and it's viscosity actually do!

Unfortunately the efficiency example is not very useful to visualize since we do not know what 100% efficiency is, which we would need to know in order to compare the 10% experimental result. Although I can make some sense of it.

aboled, Lezak ALMOST moves his body forward as much as his hand moves back doesn't explain what is going on. The FACT is that his ARM and HAND or we can call it his PADDLE moves BACKWARDS relative to a stationary reference frame. Which DOES explain, via drag propulsion idea, how he gets so much propulsion from it.

I feel like it is inferred that the hand staying still is the most efficient pulling propulsion. When I seem to think that if someone could generate enough power to move their arm backwards through water as fast as ANYBODY can through air, then the propulsion would be maximized. This is all relative to a stationary reference frame. Sure one could use a lift based propulsion to minimize hand movement backward, but I have yet to see a swim technique that even remotely resembles lift based propulsion to move a swimmer forward. To top that off it has been demonstrated in studies before that lift is not an effective means of propulsion through water.

So I do not see why anyone could logically relate the hand staying still has the body moves past it to high efficiency.....

I noticed that Jason move forward quite rapidly with few strokes - I did try its still same so how I improve it? my strength is good as him mmm

http://www.viewmontswim.com/files/Swimming...
page 7 shows the picture of the hand path that I tried to explain with pressure building up, but it seems Doc Counsilman's idea is that the swimmers are putting the arm in the vertical forearm position while their body is moving past it so not to disturb the water so the backward displacement or propulsion phase of the arm movement is after the vertical forearm is achieved.

So my idea of pressure building up is probably not correct since that would be counter productive to moving forward, but the ideal situation would be getting into a deep vertical forearm position while causing absolutely no backward flow of water, so that maximum propulsion can be taken from the propulsion phase of the pull.

Therefore scientific explanation behind WHY the hand HAS TO MOVE BACKWARD to create sufficient propulsion in swimming arm movements.

Although thinking of it this way, I do not see why it would be bad to just have a deep pull so you are getting new undisturbed water up until the mid pull while the hand is still going deeper and deeper. Deeper water provides more resistance and more pulling propulsion per stroke, which is probably why the sprinters are using it now.

Although that video of the guy I posted, doesn't have a great pull. It does not go deep to start and the forearm doesn't stay vertical much. To top it off his body position and size are by no means "fast".... Although it is a good example of just going straight into the pull.

the reason the guy in the video is not moving forward as much as his backward movement of his arm is mainly because hes NOT flexing his muscles and applying force on the water as much as Leezak or Popov, and of course he creats more negative drag than Leezak and Popov i.e. not as efficient as they are. you can move your arms in water, but you have to apply force while doing that in order to move forward. so if you told the guy pull harder, he would naturally move faster, but he would get tired faster too because hes not as physically fit as the elite swimmers are. i know its sounds simple, but thats the only way i can explain it.

Here is how I explain this to myself:

When you apply force to the water, the water begins to move. This makes it impossible to have ideal stable anchor point. If you continue to apply force at this point of water, it moves faster and faster back and you need your hand to run faster backwards to keep pressing to the water. However, you can move your paddle sideways to another spot of the water that is not yet moving because you didn't yet apply any force there. That's where all that S-shapes of hand movements come from, I think. Your hand just needs to find a piece of water that doesn't move so you can press on it efficiently.

Yet another negative effect is that when you apply too much force, the water just lets your hand move through and you create a lot of turbulence instead of propulsion.

Both these effects may lead to what is called "spinning your wheels". You move your hands fast, but don't get much forward propulsion.

Elite swimmers have such an exceptional feel of the water that they almost avoid backward movement of their hands by precisely managing the forces, speeds, shapes, and angles of their hands to approach that ideal "anchor point" effect as close as possible.

Overall, the goal of talking about "anchor point" is to somehow explain the idea that the less your hands move backward -- the better. They still go backward, and you can't help that, but the goal is to minimize that movement, and when you achieve it, the feeling is as if you move your body past the "anchor point" created by your hand(s).